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 Post subject: Project Editors Factory...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:56 pm 
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Good morning, everyone,

For some time now, Stargate and I have been working on a module for Pure Basic.

This module allows us to design complex object editors.
Editor = canvas, Objects = graphics.

What is the purpose of this module?

Imagine an Editor with which it would be possible to create Objects...

Imagine being able to control all aspects of your Objects, e.g. move them (step by step, with minimum and maximum limits), resize them (step by step, with minimum and maximum limits, in the desired direction), rotate them (step by step, with minimum and maximum limits), change layers, individually or in groups, with the mouse and/or with functions, hide or show them, disable or enable them, delete them, select or deselect them, clone them, create Container Objects. ... the list is very long!

This editor would also allow you to know everything that happens on your objects, you see, everything that has happened ...

The object has been hovered by the mouse, it is selected, hidden, etc...
Make an action according to the events.

Each editor would be independent from the others, each editor would have its own Objects, so a program could contain several of them!

This module which would be a tool, think of it as a super gadget if you want, would allow you to design powerful editors of all kinds, for example editors :

Drawings (2D, Vector)
Program
Games (Level)
Visual (Visual Designer)
...

As I told you, it would be a tool, a bit like a super gadget, this tool would not allow you to create the editors mentioned strictly speaking, it would only contribute to it, thanks to it, you will have the possibility to create your own editor!

This project is very serious and is already well advanced!
It's not a utopia, it's real!

Only, Stargate is overwhelmed, he doesn't have time anymore to take care of the project and I'm afraid it will fall into oblivion!

Basically, we started with PureBasic gadgets, but the result was mediocre and there were glitters, so we had the idea to do it in a canvas, which allows a much better flexibility and a better management of the layers!

This project had been close to my heart for a very long time, but I couldn't make it happen.
Thanks to Stargate, this project has been partly realized and is functional!

So far, we haven't been able to do everything we wanted to do, such as the management of (rotating) objects or container objects, but already the project is very accomplished and allows us to do a lot!

That's why we are recruiting experienced programmers to help us continue and bring this project to the top of what we had planned, an editor where we can do whatever we want with our objects.

I decided to call this module "EditorsFactory", and it was coded by Stargate (Martin Guttmann) of the English/German Pure Basic forum.
at the request of and for and with the participation of ShadowStorm (Dieppedalle David) from the French Pure Basic forum.

I didn't code the module, but I did:
(Ideas, Program structure, Translation, Help, Examples, Tests, Bug Tracking)

The name of the module will certainly be reviewed because it is confusing, it seems that people thought it would be used to create editors entirely with their fingers in their nose, it is not the case, it is a tool to design your editors.

I think the name would be more appropriate: "Objects Editors Factory", which means, object editor creation factory.

A lot of people don't understand the concept, they don't see the point of it, yet it seems clear that if you have an object editor and you do what you want with your objects, then it's possible to do fantastic things!

Here is a small demo showing the few non-exhaustive possibilities of the current project.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zxMLdw ... sp=sharing

https://editorsfactory.forumforever.com/index.php.

Translated with: https://www.deepl.com/translator

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My apologies for the mistakes.


Last edited by ShadowStorm on Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Project Editors Factory...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:36 pm 
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It is an attractive project. :D
The capabilities shown in the video are interesting.
I would love to see how you manage container controls in the future!

With respect.


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 Post subject: Re: Project Editors Factory...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:39 pm 
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Mohsen wrote:
It is an attractive project. :D
The capabilities shown in the video are interesting.
I would love to see how you manage container controls in the future!

With respect.

Yes, it's a very big project moving forward.
If you have any question don't hesitate to ask, I'm here to answer it and Stargate too :)

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 Post subject: Re: Project Editors Factory...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:53 pm 
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ShadowStorm wrote:
Yes, it's a very big project moving forward.
If you have any question don't hesitate to ask, I'm here to answer it and Stargate too :)


Thanks
I am still working on my previous designer project.
Image
although I have written a relatively powerful design engine so far but managing container controls is still a challenge for me.
Of course, ChrisR idea was very interesting but it has problems such as not supporting the Splitter control. that's why I was curious to see your method. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Project Editors Factory...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:45 pm 
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Oh, very nice project, you're very talented!
I'm not coding anything, it's Stargate coding!

The module I'm talking to you about, it's all about the drawing surface (canvas), it's the hardest to do !

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 Post subject: Re: Project Editors Factory...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:27 am 
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@ShadowStorm : Thanks :)
I understand what you mean.
Good luck :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Project Editors Factory...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:55 am 
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Mohsen wrote:
@ShadowStorm : Thanks :)
I understand what you mean.
Good luck :wink:

I thank you and wish you good luck as well.
I would like to test your software :)

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 Post subject: Re: Project Editors Factory...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:59 am 
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Looks very interesting. Did you already think about the license it will have?

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 Post subject: Re: Project Editors Factory...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:31 am 
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Quote:
Looks very interesting

Yes, and I didn't quote them all!
You can check out my site in French to see what you can do with them: https://editorsfactory.forumforever.com/index.php.

Stargate wanted to share the code, but I didn't agree, because it's a very big project that nobody has ever done and very few people consider it useful, most people don't understand the purpose of the project!

I'm not crazy and certainly not Stargate!
I don't agree to share the code, at least not right away.
Maybe later!

The code belongs to Stargate because it's the coder, but I also contribute even if the code doesn't belong to me, and I feel I have a say in that too, Stargate is understanding, and very tolerant, it understands.

I wanted to make a DLL out of it, Stargate wasted a few hours trying to do it, it didn't work, and God knows how precious his time is to me!

So I'll try to see if I can make a library (not a DLL) for PureBasic...

For the license, I don't know about it yet, but already, you won't be able to sell your software if you use this module, otherwise we'll have to see it together, because if you sell your software that uses our module, it's not fair that you collect money on our back you understand?

I don't know what Stargate thinks about that, but I don't agree!

As far as I'm concerned, the project is still in the early stages of development. I'd like to do even better.

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 Post subject: Re: Project Editors Factory...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:48 pm 
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ShadowStorm wrote:
Quote:
Looks very interesting

You can check out my site in French to see what you can do with them: https://editorsfactory.forumforever.com/index.php.


My school french is too outdated, so i will politely pass that offer ;)

ShadowStorm wrote:
Stargate wanted to share the code, but I didn't agree, because it's a very big project that nobody has ever done and very few people consider it useful, most people don't understand the purpose of the project!

I'm not crazy and certainly not Stargate!
I don't agree to share the code, at least not right away.
Maybe later!

The code belongs to Stargate because it's the coder, but I also contribute even if the code doesn't belong to me, and I feel I have a say in that too, Stargate is understanding, and very tolerant, it understands.

I wanted to make a DLL out of it, Stargate wasted a few hours trying to do it, it didn't work, and God knows how precious his time is to me!

So I'll try to see if I can make a library (not a DLL) for PureBasic...

For the license, I don't know about it yet, but already, you won't be able to sell your software if you use this module, otherwise we'll have to see it together, because if you sell your software that uses our module, it's not fair that you collect money on our back you understand?

I don't know what Stargate thinks about that, but I don't agree!

As far as I'm concerned, the project is still in the early stages of development. I'd like to do even better.


Some companies ask for a fixed price in advance and that works if the price is low like 29$ to 49$. Others ask for a much higher fee like 250$ to 6000$ for a "development" license for unlimited products and unlimited licensing worldwide. In the past you had plenty of micro-managed licenses which where for specific regions or specific price ranges and even tied to the total amount of sales, development machines and developers. But that creates a huge licensing chaos which requires special software to deal with it and enforce restrictions (machines, regions).

It is difficult anyway because while you want to benefit from somebody who makes millions by using your module, it would create a huge entrace fee barrier (a paywall) for dozens of small home projects who simply wont be able to use your module.

May i suggest that you use a more modern method like the one some game engine companies use? Simply ask for a 3% share of the income (not profit!) that is made by anybody who uses your module. That way you don't lose dozens of freebie projects and still get a share from a commercial success.

On a historic sidenote
Quote:
"and very few people consider it useful, most people don't understand the purpose of the project!"
- that was actually the reason why decades ago a well known development company made one of their best tools free for everybody. The target audience was too small and their software was very special too (it was an API logger/tracer for int10/13/21), so they would have had to assign a huge price to recover their investment. So they just released it for free.

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 Post subject: Re: Project Editors Factory...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:01 pm 
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Quote:
May i suggest that you use a more modern method like the one some game engine companies use? Simply ask for a 3% share of the income (not profit!) that is made by anybody who uses your module. That way you don't lose dozens of freebie projects and still get a share from a commercial success.

No, no way, we might as well do it for free so, if we were to ask for something, it would be at least 50% I think...
Anyway, it's not on the agenda.

I think it will be free under certain conditions, but the software created with this module can't be sold!

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 Post subject: Re: Project Editors Factory...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:16 pm 
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ShadowStorm wrote:
No, no way, we might as well do it for free so, if we were to ask for something, it would be at least 50% I think...
Anyway, it's not on the agenda.

I think it will be free under certain conditions, but the software created with this module can't be sold!

What you have shown looks nice but I guess that with the restrictions you put on it, it will be difficult to find PB users who want to use it.

Even if it were free and could be used for commercial purposes, most serious PB developers don't want to use a PureBasic user library without having access to its source code. There have simple been too much examples in the past from libraries that were abandoned and were incompatible with later PB versions.

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 Post subject: Re: Project Editors Factory...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:25 pm 
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Right now it's like this, after all it depends on what happens next, but I understand...

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 Post subject: Re: Project Editors Factory...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:41 pm 
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Not to seem bitter, but UB2D is also an unfinished project with a code that will probably be left private. A very interesting project. Don't let your projects die, or consider making them public :)


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 Post subject: Re: Project Editors Factory...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:14 pm 
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Joubarbe wrote:
Not to seem bitter, but UB2D is also an unfinished project with a code that will probably be left private. A very interesting project. Don't let your projects die, or consider making them public :)

Don't tkt, anyway it's Startgate who has the rights to the code because he's the one who created it, but since I'm involved in other areas as well, I have a say!

For the moment nothing is fixed and if ever I were to disappear, well, Stargate will do what it wants with the code, sharing it will then be useful....

For the moment I don't want to make the code public, and anyway nobody cares about it or almost then!

Look, the subject's been seen hundreds of times, hardly anyone's responded, see, so why would we make it public our hard work?

I told you, hardly anyone cares!

And when I talked about this project on the French forum of Pure Basic, I was almost rewarded with mockery and "this project with 0.2% chance of seeing the light", when it was already almost at the same point as today, a little less good....

Why should I share when I receive almost only mockery?!
If there were still people interested to possibly help us ...
Hardly anyone believes in this project...

I understand what you said, but that's no reason to shoot me on the PB forum !, anyway...

It's ok, anyway every time I do something it's useless, it's useless, when I've done useful and concrete things !

For the moment there's still some work to do, I'll try to release a library for PureBasic...

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