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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2002 6:22 pm 
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by MrVainSCL.

Hi everybody!
As some of you know, i am still coding on a 32k game for a special event (competition) and i am not really sure at the moment to get it managed to finish the complete game, including all graphics, sound effects and background tune in just only 32k without the use of any external files...!?

I have to add some small parts like my datasection (own format to precalc some stuff) and i am still a bit frustrated in fact of the .b > 127 problem... Ok, i could manage it to put vals up to 255 as byte in the datasection but this is a bit more work for me, because .b 255 would looks like . -128 ;(

Most of the needed graphics are precalculated now... All precalculated graphics are in 16 bit and would be about 430 KB of unpacked BMP graphics :wink:) The game including precalced graphics and sound effects is now about 27 kb packed (no background tune and no main background texture at the moment) ....

I am looking for a nice format/player to add a nice backgroundtune (midi would not be so great - maybe in combination with DX7 wavetable!? i dont know how does the sound looks like - if possible?)

Ok dudes... this is my first official amouncement... wish me luck to get the game finished until eastern this year! Be patienced... bye


PIII450, 256MB Ram, 6GB HD, RivaTNT, DirectX8.1, SB AWE64, Win98SE + Updates...

greetz
MrVainSCL! aka Thorsten


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2002 7:20 pm 
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by El_Choni.

Hi MrVain,

Ask my brother, he knows everything about demo music (he was a demo musician). Look at his profile (Wavemaker) or read the message I've just sent you.

Bye,

El_Choni


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2002 7:54 pm 
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by MrVainSCL.

Ok thanks El_Choni... i will contact your bro wavemaker :wink: bye


PIII450, 256MB Ram, 6GB HD, RivaTNT, DirectX8.1, SB AWE64, Win98SE + Updates...

greetz
MrVainSCL! aka Thorsten


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2002 1:38 am 
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by MrVainSCL.

Hi @ all!
If Fred will release a small changed/fixed updated version of PB2.90 and fixed bugs likes (IMAGELIB will no longer be included, Data$ will no longer be 2 times in exe, optimized by precalculating InitSprite table) - i think the game will really ready at eastern...

That would be cool... But first i have to thanks "El Choni" very mutch for his great, fast and very friendly support!!! Many many thanks men!!

Btw, i think the final game will include a complete background tune... Should be possible now :wink:) Bye

PIII450, 256MB Ram, 6GB HD, RivaTNT, DirectX8.1, SB AWE64, Win98SE + Updates...

greetz
MrVainSCL! aka Thorsten


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2002 1:41 am 
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by MrVainSCL.

Hi @ all
Maybe some of you have read the big problem with the big (about 7-8 kb) table stuff when using InitSprite()

My actual version is nearly finished (only to add/fix some small parts) and this version is exactly 33.824 bytes now! Now i´m at the end of my optimisations tricks to get this version in only 32 k

Seems that i cant finish the game in 32k for the eastern event, before we will find a way to replace the big table section and precalculating/generating this when executing InitSprite() command - The table stops my work!

If someone of you know a way how to replace this big table, please help me! Many thanks in advance... Still hope to get back my motivation and to bring you the complete game at eastern... thanks


PIII450, 256MB Ram, 6GB HD, RivaTNT, DirectX8.1, SB AWE64, Win98SE + Updates...

greetz
MrVainSCL! aka Thorsten


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2002 2:14 am 
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by PB.

> Seems that i cant finish the game in 32k for the eastern event

All I can suggest, is to replace as many commands with API equivalents
as possible, as this will definitely reduce your exe's final size.
For example, use Sleep_(x) instead of Delay(x), and so on.


PB - Registered PureBasic Coder

Edited by - PB on 01 March 2002 02:18:45


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2002 3:36 am 
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Paul.

And don't asign an icon to the executable.
That will get rid of a couple of kb


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:23 am 
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by fred.

Quote:
Maybe some of you have read the big problem with the big (about 7-8 kb) table stuff when using InitSprite()
L! aka Thorsten


Thorsten, are you blind or what ? You repeat this almost 4 times on the forums than the InitSprite() is not optimized and contains a precalculated table of about 7-8 kb. That is DEFINITELY false, as I proved you yesterday on IRC. The table is contained in the microsoft library (ddraw.lib and dxguid.lib). I can do nothing about it, sorry. My tables are 262 000 bytes long and if they will be hardcoded, then you will saw it .

Fred - AlphaSND


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2002 2:20 pm 
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by MrVainSCL.

Quote:
Fred wrote:
Thorsten, are you blind or what ? You repeat this almost 4 times on the forums than the InitSprite() is not optimized and contains a precalculated table of about 7-8 kb. That is DEFINITELY false, as I proved you yesterday on IRC. The table is contained in the microsoft library (ddraw.lib and dxguid.lib). I can do nothing about it, sorry. My tables are 262 000 bytes long and if they will be hardcoded, then you will saw it .


Hi Fred
I have understand you on the irc that you are not responsible for this big tables and that this stuff is DX related (while complinig or so)... As you said, this tables are not in the SpriteLib() - correct!? The tables will be included, using the ddraw.lib and dxguid.lib while compiling/creating an exe - right? If so... there must be any way to remove/optimize those tables on the M$-DX-Files...!? I just wonder why i cant find the same tables in those DX-Libs like in my exe... still a bit wondering... Hope someone can help us and show a nice trick :wink: Thanks!


PIII450, 256MB Ram, 6GB HD, RivaTNT, DirectX8.1, SB AWE64, Win98SE + Updates...

greetz
MrVainSCL! aka Thorsten


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2002 2:25 pm 
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by MrVainSCL.

Hi PB and Paul
I am still using some API replacements, so i dont need longer the StringLib(), MiscLib() and the RequesterLib()

I would try to replace the LoadFont() UseFont() ... general (FontStuff) but i dont really know how to do this while using API only and how mutch there will a different in filesize... hehe... ofcourse i dont use an icon for this small game (out of space) *lol*
Thanks for your help...

PIII450, 256MB Ram, 6GB HD, RivaTNT, DirectX8.1, SB AWE64, Win98SE + Updates...

greetz
MrVainSCL! aka Thorsten


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2002 2:45 pm 
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by El_Choni.

Hi,

33.824-32.768 = 56 bytes

I don't believe you're so depressed by the effort of saving that amount of bytes. There must be a hundred ways to cut that. I don't know if it's allowed in the contest, but you could even use UPX as a last-hour remedy. If you tell us which libs are used in your exe, maybe we can find a replacement for some of the stuff...

About the famous table, I would forget about it if I were you. You said the demo didn't work if you zeroed the table. That seems to mean that the table has to be in the exe for DX to work. period. Or, maybe you can calculate the table and generate it at runtime, but you probably need to give its address to some functions not accessible from the PB code. And if you use the Sprite lib, the table will be in the exe anyway. You can't replace the entire lib, can you? Nor do I :wink:

Let us help you, I'm sure we'll find a solution for those evil 56 bytes.

And enjoy coding :wink:


El_Choni


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2002 5:32 pm 
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by MrVainSCL.

Quote:
El_Choni wrote:
33.824-32.768 = 56 bytes


*lol* that would be cool... btw if i am right, 33824-32768 are still 1056 bytes!!

This 1056 bytes means packed... So the stuff i will reduce must be about 1056*2 = 2112 byte or let us say 2048 byte (2kb)... Just removing/optimize to left 2k isnt really easy at the moment... But i will still continue and maybe i have an idea how to get the complete game in 32k... I have too write an own and special for samples coded packer algorhythm... I have an idea for this and this could save my samples between 50-75 percent without to much quality lost... Eastern is very near and i dont really have so mutch time, so it would be now hardcore coding for me, to do it all in this small time... But i will try to do my best... This weekend i will try starting to code my texture generation engine for the background graphic... Hope it works without to mutch problems... :wink: On my paper it looks ok, hehe...

Quote:
El_Choni wrote:
...I don't know if it's allowed in the contest, but you could even use UPX as a last-hour remedy. If you tell us which libs are used in your exe, maybe we can find a replacement for some of the stuff...


hehe... yes, all 4/40/64 kb intros and nearly all other executeable releases are packed by packers like UPX or own coded packers etc. Ok, thats a good idea... I will post or send you a list with all libs and commands i am still using inside my game... But hey, i think there isnt really mutch we could replace... Maybe the "FontLib" and "MathLib" !? Let us see...

Quote:
El_Choni wrote:
About the famous table, I would forget about it if I were you. You said the demo didn't work if you zeroed the table. That seems to mean that the table has to be in the exe for DX to work. period. Or, maybe you can calculate the table and generate it at runtime, but you probably need to give its address to some functions not accessible from the PB code. And if you use the Sprite lib, the table will be in the exe anyway. You can't replace the entire lib, can you? Nor do I :wink:


Yes... seems i must live with this damn tables in my exe You are right, if i would know the adress (label) where the table will begin, i think it could be possbile to precalc this when starting the game... I just have to add my routine (generation) to the source and create an executeable... then i have to overwrite the original table with $00, because when starting my program, it will generate in this adress (in memory) the needed table :wink: More easy to say as it is without any source of the MS-DX-libs... Else it would be like a patch (small hack) and i dont really know until now to code it on WinOS;(

Easiest way would be, to reasm the M$-DX libs and precalc the tables (but i still wonder why my table it not inside this files... really funny)

Quote:
Let us help you, I'm sure we'll find a solution for those evil 56 bytes


hehe... thanks... remember... 56+1000 bytes (packed) :wink:



PIII450, 256MB Ram, 6GB HD, RivaTNT, DirectX8.1, SB AWE64, Win98SE + Updates...

greetz
MrVainSCL! aka Thorsten

Edited by - MrVainSCL on 01 March 2002 17:33:16


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2002 5:57 pm 
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by El_Choni.

Quote:
*lol* that would be cool... btw if i am right, 33824-32768 are still 1056 bytes!!


Sorry, I was using my MathExtras lib to do the calc XD.

Bye,


El_Choni


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2002 12:00 am 
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by MrVainSCL.

Quote:
El_Choni wrote:
Sorry, I was using my MathExtras lib to do the calc XD.


hehe.. np problem

Hi @ all
Now, after a very high demotiavtion with the M$-DX-TableStuff i am back in town with new and full motivation to get the full game on only 32k without hacking any stuff :wink: !!! Last hours i thinked about some stuff and how to get it all in only 32k... I found some different but not really nice ways to do this without hacking! I wrote down all my ideas to paper and tried my first tests with an idea, where i havent to code to mutch... just only to modify and experience some stuff, hehe...

Now i have so mutch motivation that i will finish the complete planed game in only 32k! :wink: Its now possible! Yeah...

At the moment, the filesize is not so very important for me, because when the game is complete and i am to mutch over the size limit, i will try some of my ideas to reduce the filesize... Else and last but not least i would code my own sample packer (special algo only for sound samples ) and this could have an pack efficient to 25-50 percent without to mutch quality lose...

So be patienced until eastern to hold my game in your hands!! :wink: Now i will go back and continue starting to code (add/fix) and play a bit with my optimzize ideas around...

Hope you all like this news... bye...


PIII450, 256MB Ram, 6GB HD, RivaTNT, DirectX8.1, SB AWE64, Win98SE + Updates...

greetz
MrVainSCL! aka Thorsten


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2002 5:39 am 
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by MrVainSCL.

Mo bro..
I´m back after the endless coding session of the weekend :wink: Now my "AnimationPrecalculationSystem" espectly coded only for my actual game project - works in a good speed and returns very smooth results i think...

So be sure, to see animated stuff in the so very small game, hehe... bye


PIII450, 256MB Ram, 6GB HD, RivaTNT, DirectX8.1, SB AWE64, Win98SE + Updates...

greetz
MrVainSCL! aka Thorsten


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