Why I left PureBasic

[Rinzwind]

Fred (at least seems) to refuse to implement new language constructs for the last x years. The 'competition' is slowly but constantly evolving syntax (in a mostly backward compatible way). As such, it stays sometimes an awkward language. One can choose to go on an improved path by implementing new language structs and adding a PB-version compiler statement at top of the source file.

Arrays should use [] because () is overused in PB and doesn't make code easy to read because of that. Instant array initialization, dynamic array (add or remove at will), ByRef procedure calls, string should be copy-on-write (first use reference, if written to copy which vastly improves performance). Some build-in string formatting stuff a = "my name is {name}" and transparent string-builder like string-concatenation (like JS does with +). Kind of template behavior such that map can use any data type as key. Reflection so one can create reusable generic procedures that work on any structure for example. Procedures have to be in certain order at this time (or declare) because.. well why? Some best practices and improvements for creating and reusing custom gadgets are also welcome. The refusement to add OS control ID>PB ID helper functions is not understandable. I hope Fred can implement some higher level features found in other compiled/interpreted languages. It's not that PB is BASIC anyway. There never was one Basic: PB looks different from PowerBasic or QuickBasic and very different from VB6. So no argument there.

The GUI library also always was just basic. The IconListGadget does not implement many features one would expect (sort, find, virtual, formatting).

Still, PB has things going for it. But I wonder why some feature requests are just totally ignored. Well, that's the rist of one-man-shops. I guess Fred can't find the energy/motivation anymore he had when he was starting PB. It just happens to all of us. Maybe take another role and let someone else do the coding (team?). I'm sure many users are willing to pay for major updates. If anything, a public road plan can help motivate oneselves and us to know what's going on and what direction PB takes...

[Joakim Christiansen]

I don't want this thread to become a place for critic against PureBasic.
So a moderator may close it now.

[purenet]

This thread is just one example where people are trying to raise their concerns of PB's future.
The same happened countless of times in different threads in many years. It's a clear sign that something is not what people expect.
There is always doomsday writers, but most messages I have seen are not overreacting.
I think constructive criticism is good and necessary in any field of life.
One option to get more features to PB to meet today's standards (for example complete TLS/SSL library) is to create PureBasic Pro
and use crowdfunding to get a development budget. Good idea?

I want to tell one story. Maybe you are heard of Rebol language. Amiga people know this well as the author is legendary Carl Sassenrath itself.
He created a messaging language which was ahead of time and it is still. For example JSON was influenced by Rebol.
He tried to build partially open sourced Rebol 3 for many years but it was too big task. Presumably financial realities forced him to do another job.
Pity that he holded Rebol very tight and not gave it to the community as a open source. Now the community is almost dead and no updates for years.
Rebol dying slowly. Of course he has right to do that because as Rebol is his product.
Some Rebol developers saw the situation long time ago and started to develop Rebol like Red Language. Red is still very young but promising and open source.

Fortunately PB's situation is not the same. The team still develop it. Only problem is that PB is almost perfect,
only small but important things are missing and users don't want to change their programming language.

Please note that this is very interesting topic, people want to know more, right now over 1700 views in two months!

purenet

[BarryG]

One option to get more features to PB to meet today's standards (for example complete TLS/SSL library) is to create PureBasic Pro and use crowdfunding to get a development budget. Good idea?

A very good idea! I'd be up for it. It amazes me that PureBasic offers lifetime free updates. Everyone knows that's not a sustainable business model (plenty of web articles say why, here's one where SpiderBasic even meets point 3 in the first post there!), and we've seen new features do get added due to "sponsors" paying and getting named in the Help file. So, money talks.

[Fangbeast]

It's time to start charging for updates

Really?? As if this hasn't been dragged up time and time again. Fred decides whether he will charge or not and we will abide by that.

and acting like a real professional business

Wow, and now you are insulting someone who gives you something for almost nothing. And you have been barely a member for a month or so?

Why don't we just all get back to coding and be happy. Especially us old, ugly goat rooters. (I didn't mention srod again did I??)

[HanPBF]

Especially us old, ugly goat rooters.

This is sadly true.
There will be no more change from inside of PureBasic.
RSBasic started some interesting add-ons.

PureBasic itself can only be developed from outside with a pre-compiler compiling to PureBasic.
That's what happened with C/C++, too.

But there is no problem with it at all!
As PureBasic team made very clear that they won't push forward (at least more people would be needed) and won't extend any resources at all, if someone wants to make a business with it -> go for it!
If one wants to distribute it's own tool based on PureBasic and the PureBasic compiler is needed, one will get a good price for each item, I assume.
If one choose PureBasic as a target or use LLVM with C or anything else, is up to him/her.

But any wishes for changes in the language itself are not needed; the language is seen as perfect as it is.
Evolving PureBasic, for the PureBasic team, means adding new libraries.
Everybody knows it, so live with it!

A business that doesn't want to grow, will shrink. (Yes, I know, the few guys from PureBasic team can live with it)

I don't blame PureBasic team for what they decided and will decide -> it's their very own business, not mine!

[BarryG]

As PureBasic team made very clear that they won't push forward (at least more people would be needed) and won't extend any resources at all

What does this mean? Are there no more updates coming? What's happening?

[Rinzwind]

It means that it seems that the language PB does not get any refinements/new features (in regard to syntax, keywords, types, structs, templates, etc), just library additions.

Let's put it this way: feature requests are just ignored. Except for bug fixes (luckily). Regarding one comment here: PB seems more like a fully flavoured and covered C dialect (B?) than a beginner friendly intro language to me. The gadget library can use a fulltime dedicated programmer to make it do 'your average stuff' out-of-the-box instead of having to rely on win32 things or whatever. Wishful thinking

[BarryG]

feature requests are just ignored

Is this official, or just what you've observed?

[Rinzwind]

Observation over the years ('it seems')

[marc_256]

@ Fangbeast

Especially us old, ugly goat rooters. (I didn't mention srod again did I??)

please speak for yourself,
I'm 60, ok this is old,
but ugly ???

maybe a little bit ...

marc

[Fangbeast]

please speak for yourself,

But marc, I have to speak up for the little people (Anyone shorter than me)

I'm 60, ok this is old,

You young whippersnapper. I'll be 61 shortly, got you beat!

but ugly ???

Put it this way. I was so lonely one day that I went into the bathroom to see my face., I thought that would feel like a friend in the room.

The mirror said to me, "Mate, I ain't showing you that, it's criminal offence in most countries!" and then it started to wear garlic for heaven's sake!

Now that's ugly!

[the.weavster]

Let's put it this way: feature requests are just ignored. Except for bug fixes (luckily).

A recent update included MariaDB and HTTPRequest, two features I'd requested.

The GUI library also always was just basic. The IconListGadget does not implement many features one would expect (sort, find, virtual, formatting).

Yes, I'd really like to see PB get a modern WebView with a bridge between PB and JS. There are some really nice HTML5 widgets about that could be added to SpiderBasic and that could be used to create a UI to run in PB's WebView.

Server side SSL/TLS would be a super feature - imagine finally could create an independent application server, cloud platform services,
anything server stuff which meets the requirements of IT policy in the enteprise market!

Yes please

Years after years Raspberry Pi come more to the enteprise, although it is more known as a hobbyist HW platform. I mean IoT field in the enterprise. Inexpensive price is one thing
which make this possible. Sad that PB does not offer ARM processor support. Imagine Raspberry Pi 4 IoT solution powered by PB application - lot of possibilities for any startup
company if compare to Python solutions.

...And if the PB team created PB Pro that supported ARM as a separate licensed product where the fee paid for 1 major version I would purchase it.

Fred's an honourable man and I understand he wants to stand by the lifetime licenses he's sold, having PB Classic and PB Pro with different licensing models may be an option to consider.

[marc_256]

@the.weavster

having PB Classic and PB Pro with different licensing models may be an option to consider.

I agree, I want to pay more for a fast bug fixing version.

Marc

[DK_PETER]

Is it "I don't get what I want, so the language must be dead" time of year, already?
Time goes by pretty quickly.